Interview with Brian O’Reilly – Sly Fox brewmaster
Last Friday, I got the chance to meet with Brian O’Reilly, brewmaster of Sly Fox Brewery, a brewery staple in the southeast Pennsylvania craft beer scene.
Sly Fox, which currently packages four of their beers in cans and several more in 750 mL and 22 oz bottles, has two locations. The Royersford location houses their main brewery, which has a 25 hectoliter capacity and produces about 6400 bbl per year. The Phoenixville Brewhouse & Eatery location has a smaller 15 bbl system, producing only 300 bbl per year, mainly for beer to be consumed in the pub there.
I met up with Brian in the restaurant at the Royersford location to find out about his background as a brewer, what we can expect from Sly Fox in the future, and what his views are on canning.
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| Sly Fox Brewery in Royersford, PA |
The path to becoming a brewmaster
Brian began his brewing career like many others, as a homebrewer. He started down the path to pro when he volunteered at two different breweries in New Hampshire, the second of which turned into an apprenticeship. After that, he joined John Harvard’s as an assistant brewer in Cambridge, MA, where he was promoted to head brewer. He then helped to open another John Harvard’s location in Long Island, NY, came back to work in Cambridge, only to move to another John Harvard’s location in Cleveland, OH.
He later moved to Pennsylvania to open a brewpub called New Road Brewhouse, during which time he met the people than ran a neighboring brewery — Sly Fox. When New Road Brewhouse closed, he spent 8 months working at Victory Brewing Company in Downingtown, PA. But he again bumped into the folks at Sly Fox, who were now interested in bringing him on as a brewer. “They wanted to do some different things with beer, and so they hired me.” Sounds simple enough, right?
Fast forward seven years and Brian is still at Sly Fox, and doing great things as the head brewer. I asked him how he decided to brew beer for a living in the first place. “I’m not sure I ever did. I kind of fell into the job and just kept working.”
So how can a homebrewer interested in becoming a professional brewer follow a similar path? Brian’s advice is to first realize that brewing is a full time commitment, and it isn’t exactly a quick trip to the top. He made the comparison to becoming a professional chef. “If you talk to very successful chefs, a lot of them have traveled quite a bit to be sous chefs under very successful chefs, made very little money, and worked horrible hours; really paid their dues and then eventually got their shot.”
For those who know before college that they want to enter the brewing industry, Brian recommends getting a food science degree, which could not only open the doors to a brewing career, but also to other food-related careers as well.
The new Phoenixville location
Recently, I wrote about Sly Fox’s annual Hop Project, held at the Phoenixville location. It was announced that this year was the final Hop Project, and that the Brewhouse & Eatery would be moving across the street. So why the move? “The impetus for us to move — we just got invited.” The landlord wants Sly Fox to move to their building because it will add value to all the surrounding businesses. And so they offered Sly Fox a great deal that they couldn’t pass up!
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| The 2009 Hop Project |
So what can we expect from the new location? Thankfully, more of the same thing! Currently they’re able to pour 12 beers in the pub, but in the new location, they’ll be able to pour 16+ beers. Plus, there will be an automated growler filler, and space to hook up more cask beer. Depending on sales, they’ll have up to three cask beers on tap every weekend. In addition to this, the new location will have more usable space to seat more people.
What about the fate of the Hop Project, will we ever see it again? Not likely, but for a good reason. The rigid monthly schedule for each varietal beer was starting to become a chore (and we all know that brewing is supposed to be fun, right?). But Brian still plans to brew a few pale ale, IPA, and pils varietals, just on a more irregular basis. (Look for US Saaz and Sorachi Ace in the future!)
Craft beer in cans
As I mentioned earlier, Sly Fox currently cans four of their beers — Pikeland Pilsner, Phoenix Pale Ale, Royal Weisse, and Dunkel Lager. Right now, about 50% of their sales are draft, 30% cans, and 20% bottles. Recently, it was announced that the Rt. 113 IPA would be joining the canned line-up. With this addition, Brian expects the can segment to continue to grow, especially with the new addition of variety 12-packs.
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| “Cans are just cool.” |
Brian talked about the benefits of canning beer, which are many — they’re impervious to light (which means no skunked beer), the double seam has a better seal than the single seam of a crimped bottle cap, less head space means less oxygen touches the beer, they’re lighter and easy to ship, and they’re easier to handle than bottles. On the consumer side, they’re easier to chill and carry, and they’re more likely to be recycled.
“All those things are good, but when you put them all together, it doesn’t really add up to the fact that cans are just cool. I mean, it’s just cool to have craft beer in a can. So that’s really the biggest reason.”
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| Brian showing me the canning line |
The only disadvantage according to Brian is that you lose some flexibility with cans. With bottles, the labels and glass are ordered separately, so the brewer has the ability to change their mind about how much they want to bottle. With cans, the label and the can are one entity, so the brewer is committed to what they put in them once they’re purchased. Additionally, bottle labels are cheaper and easier to store.
Despite the minor drawbacks, Sly Fox will soon release their 5th canned beer – the Rt. 113 IPA. I asked Brian if there are plans to release more canned beers in the future. “We’d like to. There are definitely things we’re working on down the line, but it’s always a moving target of when.”
In the brewery
As a homebrewer, I know that there are certain beers I love to brew, and others… not as much. I asked Brian what his favorite beer to brew at Sly Fox is. His answer: the Helles. “It’s a single-decocted beer so we get to boil the mash, and the brewhouse is really made for a 12 °P beer, so it’s just nice, everything about it. So it’s got that extra step, but it’s not too long a brew.” On the other end of the spectrum, “I’d love to say our Instigator Doppelbock is a wonderful brew, but it’s a 12-hour day; it’s 3 decoctions.”
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| Brian walking me around the brewery |
But brewing is a different matter from drinking, so I asked what his favorite beer to drink at Sly Fox is. “I don’t have one. Whatever’s brand new I end up drinking more of, and whatever’s almost gone.” A good answer to the always-impossible “favorite beer” question!
I asked Brian if there are any new beers on the horizon that Sly Fox fans should keep an eye out for. Aside from the obvious answer that we should always keep an eye out for everything, there’s a rye pale ale currently in the fermenter called “Terryedactale” (not sure if I got the spelling of that right) which will be available in the pubs soon!
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| The 14 fermenters at Sly Fox |
And finally, I wanted to find out if Brian had ever experienced any brewing disasters. He certainly had! At Brian’s second brewing job, he was kegging beer from a serving tank. He mistakenly disconnected the fitting from the bottom of the tank without closing the valve. Keep in mind that this was a high pressure tank held at 30 psi! “The beer hit my chest and knocked me backwards, then hit my chin.”
About 10 gallons of beer sprayed out before he took control. “I got up and closed the valve once the shock was gone. The whole cooler was filled with beer.” And as luck would have it, the beer was a bock, so it was a dark, sticky mess. “I expected my boss to come by and see the mess, and then ask me about it. But I didn’t want to go get him and say, ‘There’s a mess!’” He was able to clean up the entire disaster before his boss even noticed, but being a stand-up guy, owned up to his mistake.
With that, I’d like to thank Brian for spending the time to chat with me and show me around the brewery. Brian and the other brewers at Sly Fox make excellent beer, and I plan to continue supporting this local craft brewery! (And really, I can’t help that. I just love to drink their beer.) Cheers!
3 Comments to “Interview with Brian O’Reilly – Sly Fox brewmaster”
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[...] just came across this nice long interview with The O’Reilly from late January, posted by Steph Weber yesterday. Nicely done, and it seems to contain the first [...]
Great article, I really liked how you touched on the canning line. It’s something I am seriously considering and I think if/when the time comes I would prefer a canning line to a bottling line.
Funny how you mentioned the “cool” factor. Ironic really how probably a year ago cans were considered “poor” but as more and more people are educated it’s now starting to get trendy.
It’s a good way to differentiate yourself from your market, and once educated, shows people you care about delivering good beer over everything else.
[...] other Sly Fox news, Steph Weber of the Hop Press reports, “there’s a rye pale ale currently in the fermenter called “Terrydactale” (not sure if [...]